Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#54832 - 07/31/10 09:29 PM Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro
GeorgeTB Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Florida, USA
Here is what happens. I scan an image into Imatch and it appears as a TIF file with everything looking good. If I then edit it in PSP 8 and save it, the thumbnail turns into a gray block although the image is still there and shows up in the slide show. If I then open it in the Image Editor in Imatch and save it the thumbnail reappears.
1) So far I have only had this with TIF edited in PSP. JPG does not do this.
2) It appears to be limited to PSP - If I use Photoshop Elements to edit it doesn't occur.
You might ask why I use PSP. My wife is familiar with it and so I have both PSP and Elements as I prefer Elements.

Top
#54833 - 07/31/10 10:06 PM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: GeorgeTB]
LensView Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 476
Loc: Luxembourg / Europe
Check the options in PSP. Maybe it doesn't save a composite in the tiff file (a composite is a version of the image with all layers merged). I don't think iMatch is able to interprete layers, especially adjustment layers, so if your application doesn't save a "merged" version of the image inside the tiff, only the application itself knows how to render the image.
_________________________
Carlo Didier

Top
#54837 - 07/31/10 11:44 PM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: LensView]
Mario Administrator Offline
IMatch Developer
Slartibartfast

Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Germany
TIFF files may contain an embedded thumbnail/preview, but not in the same way a PSD does.

Anyway, if IMatch cannot read the TIFF after you have saved it in PSP, the format is not compatible with IMatch, sorry. IMatch supports all standard-compliant TIFF formats, plus about 40 variations. And it also utilizes the standard TIFF reference implementation.

So far this seemed to work well. Try to change some of the settings you use in PSP for TIFF generation and see if this changes anything.

I don't recall any reports about problems with TIFF files and IMatch and my knowledge base shows nothing. I hence guess that this must be some off-standard setting you use or something along that line.

Best to write standard RGB or CMYK TIFF files, in 8 or 16 bit per channel. This makes the TIFF files compatible with a wide range of applications.

Another reason for IMacth not being able to read a file is damaged or corrupted meta data, especially maker notes added by your camera vendor to the original file and which then somehow became corrupted in an editing application.

It may also be that PSP writes a gray/unreadable thumbnail or first page into the TIFF file if you use a multi-page TIFF variant. IMatch always uses the first page of matching size when it renders the thumbnail or preview for TIFF files with more than one page.
_________________________
-- Mario
IMatch Developer
Forum Administrator

http://www.photools.com

Top
#54838 - 08/01/10 12:18 AM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: GeorgeTB]
GeorgeTB Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Florida, USA
I played with the settings and found that PSP was by default using LZW compression. When I went to uncompressed the thumbnail reappeared.
Thanks

Top
#54841 - 08/01/10 10:36 AM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: GeorgeTB]
LensView Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 476
Loc: Luxembourg / Europe
I don't think it's the LZW compression. I have lots of 8- and 16-bit LZW compressed TIFFs and all show correctly in iMatch. Maybe there's some other parameter. I just tested with different layer compression settings, but RLE and ZIP both showed correctly too. It must be something specific to PSP.
_________________________
Carlo Didier

Top
#54842 - 08/01/10 10:37 AM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: GeorgeTB]
Mario Administrator Offline
IMatch Developer
Slartibartfast

Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Germany
IMatch fully supports LZW compressed TIFF files since the UNISYS patent ran out years ago. I use the alot myself. Looks like there's a glitch with the LZW implementation in PSP perhaps?

Can you send me (support email) or attach a small LZW-compressed sample so I can have a look?
_________________________
-- Mario
IMatch Developer
Forum Administrator

http://www.photools.com

Top
#54862 - 08/03/10 01:17 AM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: GeorgeTB]
GeorgeTB Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Florida, USA
Well it appeared to be the LZW compression, but it apparently wasn't as today we edited a photo in PSP and saved it uncompressed and it lost the thumbnail. Now I can't figure out what has changed. I've tried some other settings without losing the thumbnail so I need to do more work. Will get back if I can find anything. The only thing I know for sure (?) is that it is specific to PSP since Adobe Elements hasn't caused this problem yet.

Top
#54865 - 08/03/10 10:08 AM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: GeorgeTB]
Mario Administrator Offline
IMatch Developer
Slartibartfast

Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Germany
Set the IMatch log file to debug mode (Help > Technical Support > Toggle Debug mode), see also How to create and read a log file.

When this happens again, check the log file right after you have added the image to your database and it failed. The log file will give additional info about the source of the problem (near the end of the log, search for the file name). If the error is "invalid" or "unsupported" file format, the TIFF file produced by PSP is not a valid TIFF, at least not one of the 40 varieties IMatch can handle.
_________________________
-- Mario
IMatch Developer
Forum Administrator

http://www.photools.com

Top
#54866 - 08/03/10 10:45 AM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: Mario]
CarlJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/28/05
Posts: 1251
Loc: Exeter, Devon, UK
Just reading back I notice that you are using PSP 8. PSP's Tiff handling was buggy in a number of areas which was apparently eventually fixed in a patch in 10.02. It's possible your problems may be because of those bugs which apparently included:
  • incorrectly saving copyright data in the tiff file
  • loss of image resolution
  • a number of problems reading and writing 16 bit multi page files
  • problems with images that had been touched by Nikon software.

Following Mario's log file instructions may help you locate the actual source of the problem.


Edited by CarlJ (08/03/10 10:45 AM)
_________________________
Carl
--------------------
www.carlmaniglia.com

Top
#54963 - 08/08/10 07:37 PM Re: Thumbnail Disappears after editing in Paint Shop Pro [Re: GeorgeTB]
GeorgeTB Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Florida, USA
Mario,

Two things - first, here is the log file - I can see where it is operating on the file (Scan 0005.tif) but I can't interpret what it is telling me.

Secondly, I am now using PSP X3. Before I was using X2 (not 8 as I previously said - the 8 came from Photoelements - my bad).

If you have a chance to look at the log file and if it tells you anything I'd appreciate it. Nowhere does it say invalid file format that I could see.


Attachments
IMATCH4_LOG.TXT (11 downloads)


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  DeKa42, khodadad, Mario, Richard, sinus 
New General Topics
Rename and IPTC Data
by claudermilk
1 second ago
Ferdinands Create-Country-Provi
nce-City-Location Categories Script

by Ferdinand_Paris
Today at 12:36 PM
Duplicate image entries when relocating database
by helpmeivefallen
Today at 04:07 AM
IMatch-Smugmug integration script v1.3.00
by jch2103
Today at 02:47 AM
IMSmugTools - populate thumbnails
by jch2103
Today at 02:42 AM
Version Check
IMatch 3.6.0.94
released on 14.05.2010
Forum Stats
4296 Members
12 Forums
7740 Topics
50370 Posts

Max Online: 160 @ 04/02/08 10:02 AM
Top Posters
Mario 10413
khodadad 3942
Richard 3518
BenAW 2301
claudermilk 2031
Newest Members
barjo07, Madon, AKoerber, Markus_M, Nigelinlondon
4296 Registered Users
Who's Online
4 registered (claudermilk, emalvick, Shenstone, speedskater), 13 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Links
photools.com Wiki
photools.com
Release Notes
Installation Instructions